tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post5667418168038208097..comments2023-11-10T22:27:47.359-05:00Comments on Eye on a Crazy Planet: Jew-hating United Church members pretending to be self-hating JewsRichard Khttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10239826441964023625noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-90906612509825029232012-12-16T19:00:14.271-05:002012-12-16T19:00:14.271-05:00I'll be writing another post in the next week ...I'll be writing another post in the next week or two on the subject, though not specifically addressing the article. I will say that for people who wear their religions on their sleeves, to the point of making it the centre piece of their organization like the Independent ( not really) Jewish Voices, and for that matter, many in leadership positions in the UCC, they are a disingenuous lot.Richard Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10239826441964023625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-24268291820476801652012-12-15T05:50:28.433-05:002012-12-15T05:50:28.433-05:00Richard, are you going to respond to or comment up...Richard, are you going to respond to or comment upon the CJN article on this issue? http://www.cjnews.com/canada/pro-palestinian-jewish-group-linked-churchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-11959992730687799452012-12-06T04:21:28.190-05:002012-12-06T04:21:28.190-05:00Listening to the interview it's clear Allison ...Listening to the interview it's clear Allison is somewhat confusedand wasn't around at the time - for instance he says the UCC passed a motion to boycott Israel in 2006 which it actually didn't so I don't think his comments can be taken as accurate or as meaning anything. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-4058036443844275012012-12-05T21:54:52.353-05:002012-12-05T21:54:52.353-05:00I would not presume to speak on behalf of the Almi...I would not presume to speak on behalf of the Almighty. However were I to speculate, I would not imagine He is segregating souls on the basis of corporeal ethnicity or terrestrial denominational affiliation.<br /><br />That said, I can't imagine anyone who isn't unbalanced who, not under duress, would join one religious denomination while claiming to be part of another.Richard Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10239826441964023625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-11065271344167473082012-12-05T18:33:30.377-05:002012-12-05T18:33:30.377-05:00PS: We can argue whether that's right or not, ...PS: We can argue whether that's right or not, but the point is that there are many who sincerely believe themselves to be Jewish to the core and live it outwardly who are Christians (though I find it unlikely these UCC members would be examples).Anonymous Christiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-64403906658400277052012-12-05T18:24:27.862-05:002012-12-05T18:24:27.862-05:00I don't disagree with the conclusion with rega...I don't disagree with the conclusion with regards to IJV and the UCC. However, I have to object to the premise that one cannot sincerely believe themselves to still be 100% Jewish identity in honesty and believe what the New Testament says about Jesus, particularly if they still hold to all things Jewish, laws and customs. Even if they are no longer considered Jewish by their communities, God gets the final word on who his people are according to both Jews AND Christians. In fact, an early major controversy in the church was whether or not one needed to also convert TO Judaism to be a Christian. (Again, I refer you to Romans). There are many of the Jewish people IN ISRAEL who believe this way. That's all I have to say.Anonymous Christiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-71248831110417296782012-12-04T17:46:08.501-05:002012-12-04T17:46:08.501-05:00I am inclined to agree with you, ShtrudelI am inclined to agree with you, ShtrudelRichard Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10239826441964023625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-18492373308597148732012-12-04T16:31:46.945-05:002012-12-04T16:31:46.945-05:00Sorry, I know that this may be complicated for som...Sorry, I know that this may be complicated for some but here's a list of facts:<br /><br />* With the possible exception of extraterrestrial race(s) there is only ONE race - that being the Human race!...<br /><br />* Judaism is a dual identity: it defines your religion and it defines your membership in the people (nation)...<br /><br />* You can be a secular Jew... You can even be a non believing Jew...<br /><br />* As one can join (convert) the "tribe" by conversion it follows that one can leave the "tribe" by conversion out of the tribe (e.g. to Christianity or Islam)...<br /><br />* Obviously, one could still Jewish heritage in such a case but I don't see how one could claim to be Jewish...<br /><br />Of course, in this particular case the claim is no more then a paper thin veneer of "Jew Washing"... In other words, they're basically claiming to be Jewish to, supposedly, add "value" to their rubbish views...Shtrudelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16551674184873541298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-6201847521229056232012-12-04T07:53:31.875-05:002012-12-04T07:53:31.875-05:00"When Dubner decided to return to Judaism he ..."<i>When Dubner decided to return to Judaism he didn't have to convert.</i>"<br /><br />That's because -- contrary to what some are asserting -- Judaism holds that one can never cease to be a Jew, and that, recursively, one is a Jew if one's mother was a Jew.<br /><br />Thus, according to Judaism, some of my (now distant) cousins, who haven't thought of themselves as Jews for generations, are still technically Jews.<br /><br />At the same time, since many Jews hate Christianity with a white-hot passion -- and the less 'observant' the Jew, the hotter the passion (*) -- there seems to be an agreed-upon codicil that conversion to Christianity is equivalent to suicide.<br /><br />(*) to the point that most atheistic Jews cannot decide which they hate worse: Judaism or Christianity.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-9385374497536156092012-12-04T05:51:51.347-05:002012-12-04T05:51:51.347-05:00I bet these as-a Jews see Israel's Law of Retu...I bet these <i>as-a Jews</i> see Israel's Law of Return as truly racist.<br /><br />There is something truly ironic in a group who have rejected the laws and customs of Judaism only to demand they be accepted as Jews, on the basis of Jewish Law, for the sole purpose of attacking the actions of the largest group of Jews, those who either live in or support the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.<br /><br />I think Eye on a Crazy Planet has it completely correct.<br /><br />Those using the Halachticly Jewish <i>(BTW which Halacha?)</i> test are making a huge assumption that these <i>Independent Jewish Voices</i> are all Jews by ethnicity or by descent. If one could (and had the time to waste) check their credentials I'm betting many were born to parents who publicly rejected their Judaism by conversion to Christianity or Atheistic Communism before they were born and gave them no Jewish education at all. Some at least like Madeleine Albright. former US Secretary of State, probably only discovered their Jewish background as adults and that by accident. Very convenient when it comes to libelling that same background.<br /><br />Is there anything similar in any other religion? I haven't come across it. Is it just overcoming the feeling that their new 'friends' won't really accept them if they don't actively blacken their past life, however remote it is? Or is there something more?David Guyhttp://5mfi.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-69441277982529038202012-12-04T03:50:46.207-05:002012-12-04T03:50:46.207-05:00For mr. Gibson,
I have also read the interesting ...For mr. Gibson,<br /><br />I have also read the interesting book by Dubner. I do not remember if his parents became christians before his birth or later on. In any case, there are differences in the acceptance of a person like him between the reformed Jewry and the (ultra) orthodox Jewry.<br /><br />I have a friend whose mother converted to christianity after she was born. The father was a christian. She is Jewish. Her brothers were born later on, and are not considered as Jews. Doreennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-54555454268261082472012-12-03T16:34:00.451-05:002012-12-03T16:34:00.451-05:00P.S. Richard, thanks for uncovering this - it'...P.S. Richard, thanks for uncovering this - it's priceless!Brian from Torontohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509900661542494184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-4786534297942339682012-12-03T16:32:55.046-05:002012-12-03T16:32:55.046-05:00From a Jewish point of view, you're no longer ...From a Jewish point of view, you're no longer a Jew if you convert to another religion. And since Jews get to say who Jews are, it doesn't matter whether Christians disagree.<br /><br />On the other hand, as I recall, it's true that if you were previously Jewish or if your mother was Jewish (though you were baptized at birth), then if you want to become Jewish again, the process isn't the same as a conversion for a gentile, but does require immersion in a mikvah (same as for a gentile convert) and of course circumcision if you're a male and haven't previously been circumcised by a mohel. Brian from Torontohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00509900661542494184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-77820027401362450472012-12-03T15:46:53.169-05:002012-12-03T15:46:53.169-05:00Wow, you can train these trolls to scream "Hi...Wow, you can train these trolls to scream "Hitler"! I'm impressed. Hitler indeed saw things this way, for the simple reason that pretty much everybody does. In much the same way, Hitler also thought the sky was blue. I think that, too. I guess I'm eeeevil, eh? But, nobody cares if you like it. Dispute the colour of sky, for all the good it will do you.<br /><br />Just in case it matters, I doubt very much that these people are Christians. There certainly are Christians in the United Church, even whole congregations of them, but the UC as a body long since went into schism and has devolved into, at best, a vaguely debased Unitarianism, and for the most part a meaningless pose for Marxists. I expect these people are in the latter group.<br /><br />And yes, I don't doubt for a second that anyone who hates the Jewish people is, from that alone, in serious trouble with the Lord and asking for more.ebtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-81277183534224580732012-12-03T15:38:57.363-05:002012-12-03T15:38:57.363-05:00Any student of European Jewish history can tell yo...Any student of European Jewish history can tell you that the prime movers behind the Spanish Inquisition were so called "Jews". Second generation conversos mostly who would claim special Jewish knowledge that the Jews were evil child killers and that the Talmud was a secret manual for world conquest. <br /><br />But in fact they're no more Jewish than I am Ukrainian. My Grandparents were Ukrainian Jews but that doesn't make me that. Because that's all these 'as a Jews' really are: people, like Fleix Mendelssohn who had Jewish ancestors but are not Jewish. It's simply a Halachic fiction to call them Jewish; a convenient law used within the Jewish community to establish who is descended from whom. But it was the racists and psychopaths of the Inquisition who morphed that into a racial delineation for being a Jew just like Hitler did. If these 'as a Jews' are ascribing to Nazi race theory as their defense of criticizing other Jews....well then the irony and horror of that is priceless. Empress Trudyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06073538968722986065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-59699535706770938982012-12-03T14:45:54.407-05:002012-12-03T14:45:54.407-05:00I agree that labelling yourself as an 'indepen...I agree that labelling yourself as an 'independent Jewish voice' is deceptive when your real motivations have to do with your CHRISTIAN affiliation. However, from a Christian perspective, you can be both a Jew and a Christian. It's like how most Christians do not identify Mormons as Christians, yet from their beliefs, it makes perfect sense for them to call themselves Christians. They're not being deceptive. It's just what they believe. Similarly, Jesus is thought by Christians to be the Jewish Messiah, and Christianity was a Jewish movement from its foundations. From the New Testament perspective, it is NOT 'another' religion, but the fulfillment of the old covenant. The book of Romans was written to a large audience of Christians who also identified as Jews. I think it's more likely that Christians accepted Christianity as being apart from Judaism because of anti-semitism of gentile believers in the church (denying the Jewishness of Christ and the apostles), not because it's what the New Testament teaches. The point is, you can't judge their self-labelling themselves 'Jewish' as TOTAL deception based on Jewish Jesus-rejecting assumptions. Again, that's like a Catholic saying a Mormon is lying if the Mormon claims not to be a heretic!Anonymous Christiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-20350868410419647912012-12-03T11:31:05.711-05:002012-12-03T11:31:05.711-05:00http://bit.ly/VgpIe0
This is a famous story.
Ste...http://bit.ly/VgpIe0<br /><br />This is a famous story.<br /><br />Steven Dubner's parents converted to Catholicism and raised their children as Catholics.<br /><br />When Dubner decided to return to Judaism<br />he didn't have to convert.<br />Gibson Blocknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-36675335293012451712012-12-03T11:09:31.833-05:002012-12-03T11:09:31.833-05:00“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their ch...“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” -- Golda MeirThe Hammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09932267456963608596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-19318862218888601572012-12-03T02:53:38.439-05:002012-12-03T02:53:38.439-05:00That last one's got a point? Can you really ca...That last one's got a point? Can you really call groups like the United Church or the Unitarians Christians? If secular Jews in search of faith look toward Christianity, well I guess I'm okay with that, but the United Church of Canada? Too bizarre.Exurbannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-90744011048473247802012-12-03T01:43:41.206-05:002012-12-03T01:43:41.206-05:00You are all not quite right. Judaism is a religion...You are all not quite right. Judaism is a religion, and a race although there are many races who are of the Jewish faith - from black to ivory. The pure Jews are Semites as are their arch enemy the Arabs.<br /><br />The people under discussion are none of the above, they are idiots. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-43917031510012091512012-12-02T23:24:20.993-05:002012-12-02T23:24:20.993-05:00The real question is not whether these Uniteds are...The real question is not whether these Uniteds are Jews, but whether they are even Christians. You don't even have to believe in God to be a UCC clergy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-84476826768877920772012-12-02T22:40:18.183-05:002012-12-02T22:40:18.183-05:00According to the Torah, the Soul is in the brain a...According to the Torah, the Soul is in the brain and when a Jew decides to join another religion, then he is no lomger a Jew. He is not included in a minyan and is not permitted to receive a Jewish burial service. Meir Weinsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04543986540295380437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-73782221546328596672012-12-02T18:35:01.959-05:002012-12-02T18:35:01.959-05:00Ilíon, some of your observations have some validit...Ilíon, some of your observations have some validity and some a lot of the nonsensical to them. It is not just being a Christian that is exclusionary to being a Jew. If a Jew converts to Islam he is a Muslim, not a Jew, same goes for the others (although there are some arguments that Buddhism can be compatible with maintaining religious beliefs of others). But if you think the point of this is anti-Christian, you are way off the mark.<br /><br />Christianity, as it was preached by Jesus, is a faith of love and peace and truth. The crux of this piece is the deceitfulness of people who claim to be Christians or Jews depending on what political point or social club they want to be part of at the moment. Richard Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10239826441964023625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-86230513649619788582012-12-02T18:23:03.788-05:002012-12-02T18:23:03.788-05:00my further comments on this<a href="http://iliocentrism.blogspot.com/2012/12/only-gentiles-could-be-this-dumb.html" rel="nofollow">my further comments on this</a>Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2601639312234106733.post-1669550484034332692012-12-02T18:12:09.076-05:002012-12-02T18:12:09.076-05:00You can be an Israeli without being a Jew. Israel ...You can be an Israeli without being a Jew. Israel is a nation. Jews are not a "Race".<br /><br />A Jew is a person who believes in the religious tenants of Judaism just as a Muslim believes in Mohammed or a Christian believes in Jesus Christ. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com